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US-Russia Relations Russians injured & Allied troops ignore help by Sophia Barkat Recently, Russian Ambassador and his entourage were fired upon by Coalition forces while travelling through Baghdad. The Russians waved white flags as a way to establish that they are not the enemy but were fired upon again. Also a passing group of Coalition tanks, troops ignored their plea for medical attention. Here's the link: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/20030406/ap_on_re\ _mi_ea/war_russia_iraq_15 by Trevor Batten Re: Sophia's post Right! It seems the Russians still have a number of people still in Baghdad -ready to look after their interests when tthe Americans take over. I'm not sure what the legal position is -but I can imagine its possible that the new government is still responsible for legal commitments made by the old (a bit like after a hostile takeover of one company by another). By chance, have just seem a collection of reports from Arabic TV stations on Dutch TV. Heavy stuff. Shots of comparing Hitler with Bush (and German troops with US troops) -seriously wounded kids (with missing arms and burnt bodies) -public protests against war and denials of participation by local governments -shots of US troops being faced down by angry Iraqis -a film for children over children's rights and a report on the arms trade claiming that 4 of the 6 countries with the world's largest weapon exports sit in the UN security council! I guess such stuff should be compulsory viewing in the US and the UK -if only to show how others view the war. I'm sure that almost nobody in the west realizes what a disgusting turkey shoot the last Gulf war was. The shots of the "highway of death" always seem to show the vehicles and not the bodies -the news as a kind of cowboy film -where nnobody really gets hurt. Not that it matters I suppose -after all, its only American casualties that matter it seems. I hear Bush is now planning to "liberate" Northern Ireland -in order to prove to outsiders that he's taking the Israeli roadmap seriously. I just wish he'd learn to read it the right way up, for once! One British political commentator reminded listeners that it was essential to his survival that "Blair keeps the Americans on board" -a remark which sounds just about as silly as a famous headline in the Times which claimed "Europe isolated from Britain by fog". However, on second thoughts -this seems to describe Britain's current position rather well! by Cherrie Lynn Lipsett Re: Trevor's post So it is this that the Russian referred to as to the Bushs always sending women to do their dirty work. I also heard from this Russian that a coalition of the willing to take out the US (what ever that means, I don't ask questions, just listen, I find asking to many questions when someone wants to talk puts them on guard and they usually shut up and realize that they are saying things they shouldn't be saying) I heard they now had a coalition of 10 countries. I also think the US is aware of this and this is one reason they shot at the Russian convoy as a warning but as usually the bush administration made the wrong move. This just inflamed the group. I think the US knows about this as I saw a clip where Collin Powell was asked if France could send peace keeping troops after the war. He gave a very adamant NO! but they can give money. I guess the US doesn't want any troops there that might be willing to fight American troops. This situation between other countries and the US is really getting out of hand in my opinion. I just heard from another very reliable source a little while ago that there is talk of two countries of the middle east hiring these 10 countries to help protect them if invaded by the US. This type stuff is deemed by our free press (?) who reports both sides of the story (we're told by them) to indelicate for sensitive Americans. I wish we could get both sides of the story. We are just like China when it comes to freedom of the press. No we are worst because the Chinese know there press is just government propaganda and know to look else where for another point of view while most Americans are too dumb to even realize they don't have freedom of the Press anymore so don't look else where. Blair will get nothing he wants from the bush administration I am betting. They will throw him out for the wolves to pick over the bones of like they do every one when they are done using them and have no more use for them. As for Bush, he is heading us towards World War III I fear. by Trevor Re: Cherrie's post I'm afraid you are a bit behind (are you working for central command? ;)). The Cold War was surely WWIII. The post-cold war period (leading up to the current situation) could also be considered as WWIV -although I suppose one could simply see it as "nation building" (social reconstruction) in the east after the defeat of the Soviet Union. Interestingly, George Soros, who was probably the single person most involved with the reconstruction of the east via the "Soros Foundation" seems to be opposed to the invasion of Iraq. I believe Soros has also been charged with doing dodgy deals on the stock market (which is presumably how he (supposedly) earned enough money to almost single-handedly rebuild the Soviet Empire in the western image. One wonders how much the accusations against him are related to any opposition he may have to the current policies. It seems that the critical ex-U arms inspector Scott Ritter also faced spurious charges. It seems that Saddam also received full American support until he dared to believe that he could act independently. George Soros: http://www.alltheweb.com/search?cat=web&cs=iso-8859-1&q=%22george+Soros%22+&_sb\ _lang=nl+en Scott Ritter: http://www.truthout.com/docs_02/07.25A.wrp.iraq.htm from: http://www.alltheweb.com/search?cat=web&cs=iso-8859-1&q=%22scott+ritter%22+&_sb\ _lang=nl+en To be honest, the BBC Panorama programme mentioned under my title "Welcome to World War $" did specifically refer to the start of World War IV -but while typing the "subject" line I accidentally pressed the shift key and got the dollar sign -which I left as it was. by Duncan Reilly Re: Trevor's post Trevor wrote: "I hear Bush is now planning to "liberate" Northern Ireland -in order to prove to outsiders that he's taking the Israeli roadmap seriously. I just wish he'd learn to read it the right way up, for once!" What's this about Bush and Northern Ireland? by Trevor Batten Re: Duncan's post There's a summit meeting with Bush and Blair in Northern Ireland today -to prove that Bush is prepared to move towwards Blair. Apparently, they will be discussing the Roadmaps for post-war Iraq, peace in Northern Ireland and Israel. British commentators will be watching carefully to see if Bush's politics as well as his physical position has moved towards Blair. Security is supposed to be good in Northern Ireland -and America has been a traditional base of support for IRA (although this may have changed since the Americans started the war on terrorism, instead of drugs or communism). What are the Russians doing in Iraq anyway? by Sophia Barkat I thought it would be smart to leave a city that was getting bombed, even if you have business interests. What were they doing in Baghdad knowing the US military is known for "friendly fire"? by Trevor Batten Re: Sophia's post Making friends and influencing people! What else? Strange how some people are accusing Americans of being "deliberately" careless -I thought they were naturally careless. Issn't that what caused the mess in the first place? by Sophia Barkat Re: Trevor's post Well, I won't go so far as to say it's very American to be careless. As you said, the Americans make good business people. Their globalism concept is infectious. I just think Bush and his father et. all are so knee deep in promises to Oil Lobby and Defense Lobby, this is payback. As for "deliberate carelessness" - I think it's being used to kill Kurds in the North. And have you noticed how journalists are dropping like flies? by Trevor Batten Re: Sophia's post I've already told you -you are confusing things here. The Americans did not discover globalism. It was globalism that discovered America! Where did I say that Americans make good business people? I wonder if Americans do make good business people. The evidence seems to suggest that when they are forced to operate under the same rules as other people they quickly change the rules (imposition of steel tariffs, for example). One can also surely not claim that Enron and Worldcom are examples of good business practice? Unfortunately, they appear to have forced such practices on the rest of the world. Presumably, if they had proceeded in an honest and responsible way -then there would be no "payback". Sophia wrote: "As for "deliberate carelessness" - I think it's being used to kill Kurds in the North. And have you noticed how journalists are dropping like flies?" Exactly, and its not only journalists! US Gov. trying to set Russia up? by Cherrie Lynn Lipsett Russian factory denies exports of night-vision devices to Iraq 07.04.2003 [20:42] Not a single night-vision device has been delivered to Iraq by the Lytkarino optical glass factory, Russia's main producer of night-vision devices, Viktor Rumyantsev, technical director of the factory, told Itar-Tass on Monday. According to Rumyantsev, the device with the LZOS trademark, which is shown by Western TV channels as proof of the alleged violation by Russia of the international sanctions against Iraq, might have been purchased in any Russian specialized shop and taken to Iraq. "The device with the electronic-optical transformer of the zero generation, shown on TV, is intended for amateur hunters. It is effective at a distance under 70 metres, while military night-vision devices are effective at a distance ranging from 120 metres to five kilometres," Rumyantsev said. According to his information, some 25,000 night-vision devices with transformers of the zero generation have been produced. They are all sold freely in Russia. At the same time, night-vision devices with transformers of the fourth generation are on sale in the United States. "Moreover, the Scientific Defense Committee under the Defense Ministry prohibits the export of any night-vision devices, and we can do nothing without its sanction," Rumyantsev said. By Sophia Barkat Re: Cherrie's post I doubt the US is trying to set the Russian's up. I think the Russians probably sell weapons to Iraq and that makes them abettors of the enemy as far as the US is concerned. Perhaps this is one of those examples where the people were purposely set up. I'm no fan of the way Putin does business. So, I'm guessing the Russians were not set-up. Incidentally, I saw on a PBS documentary some two years ago that Russia's Military had been downsized greatly since the fall of the Soviet Union. The Nuclear program is still operating but there are safety issues. PBS usually Features informative documentaries but judging from the propaganda machine the US Media is who really knows. by Craig Johnson Re: Cherrie's post You know I have it on good advice that one of the major reason locations and info on WMD wasn't spilled to the UN security council was that we already knew the Russians were passing on everything to the Iraqis. As for your night vision goggle theory...If there's a large cache of them with successive serial #'s I think your theory will hit a snag. The Russian Side of the Story by Cherrie Lynn Lipsett Iraqi ambassador accuses US of attacking Russian diplomats 07.04.2003 [20:43] Iraq's ambassador to Russia, Abbas Khalaf, has accused the US of a fire attack under which a convoy of the Russian embassy came in Iraq on Sunday. He said the "incident happened 60 kilometers west of the Iraqi capital". Khalaf said, citing "testimony of witnesses", that "fire was opened on a column from the American side". "The Russian diplomats came under fire despite American command had been informed about the route of movement," the ambassador said. "All this causes our indignation and shock," Khalaf said, adding that the "American side has not given any official explanations in this regard so far". He stressed that "Iraqi soldiers escorted the injured. April 12, 2003 Putin Warns the US by Cherrie Lynn Lipsett Here's proof of something I mentioned days ago. This is to help prove that my information is accurate but just before it actually happens or before it hits the press. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/QuietPolyJuryFury/message/828 April 12, 2003 Putin on Iraq's contracts prior to War by Cherrie Lynn Lipsett Here's the forwarded message. It could not be re-printed without the author's permission. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/QuietPolyJuryFury/message/829 |
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